Cineuropa
By David Katz
January 11, 2025
We spoke to the second winners of this year’s CineMart
Eurimages Co-Production Development Award, who are devising an Italian (and not
spaghetti) western.
"We wanted to do a full-on western film. A real
western, like they used to shoot in the old days: gritty, dirty and savage."
After achieving some wide distribution for their 2021
festival breakout The Tale of King Crab [+], which premiered in Directors'
Fortnight in Cannes, Italian-American directors Alessio Rigo de Righi and Matteo Zoppis are back with a new
project, Heads or Tails?, a promising-sounding western thriller that, twice
during our conversation, the directors describe as “dirty.” Awarded by a jury
of consisting of industry figures Ilse Ronteltap, Mira Staleva and Konstantina
Stavrianou, it was granted one of two Eurimages Co-Production Development
Awards at last month’s IFFR Pro CineMart. For now, we have to wait to see
exactly what a “dirty tracking shot” might look like.
Cineuropa: There are a few brief plot details
floating around, but I’d love if you could share, in your own words, the story
of Heads or Tails?, and delve into some of its themes.
Alessio Rigo de Righi and Matteo Zoppis: After our
previous film, The Tale of King Crab, we wanted to do a full-on western film. A
real western, like they used to shoot in the old days: gritty, dirty and
savage. But almost all these films had America as a backdrop, while in the
beginning of our film, the myth of the American cowboy has already been
cemented by Buffalo Bill’s Wild West Show and his tour in Italy. So that’s our
setting: Italy, 1891. It’s an Italian post-modern western, set in Italy: a
ballad, a love story. Two lovers, wild at heart, fuelled by burning love in
search of freedom, in stark contrast with the brutal violence of
post-unification Italy. It’s a manhunt-escape-western – Bonnie and Clyde on a
real mustang-kind of movie – triggered by a murder and a huge misunderstanding.
What are your initial ideas for its visual style, and
are you looking to distinguish it from the documentary elements of The Tale of
King Crab?
The idea is to make a very classic western, in terms of
directing, but bending the boundaries of the genre in some of its angles. We’d
like to challenge ourselves into making an arthouse film that can cross over
into genre and reach a larger audience. Threading together well-known actors
and non-actors, and creating a hallucinatory and surrealistic atmosphere with
moments of deadpan humour. It will be shot on vibrant 35mm: pictorial but still
grainy, using wide angles, lots of blocking and many “dirty” tracking shots.
How are you planning to use the €20,000 sum from the
Eurimages award?
This award means a lot to us. We are starting our casting
process and location scouting, therefore this money will help us to work our
way on that territory. Besides being an honor to have received the prize among
so many other great projects, it gave us confidence, and has put our project
under a spotlight that is already helping our financing process.
What was your experience like in Rotterdam itself for
CineMart? Did you receive any useful feedback or suggestions from the meetings
you took part in?
It was a very positive experience for us since it was our
first coming-out in the international market for this project, and we had no
idea how it was going to be received. We had good feedback and we met
interesting potential partners.
Are you also planning to take the project to other
markets and schemes, for further funding opportunities?
CineMart has been a great experience, so eventually we
will try to take it to other markets. But for now, we are focused on our script
and on the casting and location scouting process.
Cineuropa: How did you first learn about the legend of
Luciano?
Alessio Rigo de Righi: It was in this hunting
lodge, where we previously made our first two
films, that we first heard about the legend. We were told
about some unfortunate event that happened and that Luciano was involved in,
but the details were not very plentiful. So we started from there with our
research and developed the story. We then also found someone with the same name
who, according to the records, immigrated to Latin America, and we used it as
additional inspiration.
Was it clear from the beginning that you would use two
different time periods?
Matteo Zoppis: Yes, it was planned in the script
from the start. We wanted to replicate what we actually observed with the
hunters who told us the story in the first place. Since it was our starting
point, we also wanted it to be the starting point of the film. Moreover, these
men reappear during the rest of the story in other roles and so create a kind
of continuity.
The inclusion of old folk songs underlines the
traditional setting and the legendary nature of the story. Were you familiar
with this tradition before?
MZ: People in this place are always singing. We
were therefore confronted by songs from the start. It is a tradition that is
authentic to them and part of them. It is something they added to the concept
of the movie. We then conducted our own research to find the most suitable
ones. The songs all have the same metric structure that dictates a certain
rhythm. The lyrics change, though, and we often got the impression that they
would describe the story of the film very well.
How did you find the main actor for the role of
Luciano?
ARdR: Gabriele Silli is a friend of ours. We
started to talk to him three or four years ago about the role. He is an artist,
painter and sculptor. Right from the first moment he heard about the character,
he started to practise. He learned Spanish, he grew a beard, and he even moved
to the place we were supposed to shoot the film for a while. The role of
Luciano grew with him, and he really became the character.
What were the biggest challenges of shooting in Tierra
del Fuego?
MZ: Actually, the geography was very challenging.
We went to remote places, where we had to take our equipment, too. Moreover, we
depended to a great extent on the weather conditions. We had to wait for the
sunshine and the snow to come at the right moment, for example.
Was it difficult to reconstruct the time period of the
19th century?
MZ: We didn't want to be too precise with that. We
were rather inspired by the place in itself, which is actually very genuine,
and wanted to evoke an authentic atmosphere by talking about that spot and the
life of these people here.
Why did you choose a crab as your symbolic animal?
ArdR: I think we just like to work with animals.
But seriously, it felt as if it would underline the fairy tale-like and magical
character of the story.
How would you define the film in a few words?
MZ: The first part is like a prologue to a
western, and the second is the western. We have a character that had an
experience that led him to flee from his home, searching for his fortune on the
other side of the world. It is also a movie about identity.
